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Talk:USS Saratoga (2250s)
Shouldn't this just be named "USS Saratoga (2256)"? (JMC Red Dwarf (talk) 15:43, February 21, 2019 (UTC)) :How do you figure we know the event it was involved with was in 2256? -- Capricorn (talk) 15:47, February 21, 2019 (UTC) Well, it does say that on the page. (JMC Red Dwarf (talk) 15:51, February 21, 2019 (UTC)) :Well, critical thinking is always a plus... By the time Disco left for the Mirror Universe, it must have been very late in 2256, possibly already 2257. By the time it got back ten months later, it would have been late 2257, or conceivably even 2258 already. -- Capricorn (talk) 17:22, February 21, 2019 (UTC) Good point, I'll update the status. (JMC Red Dwarf (talk) 04:22, February 22, 2019 (UTC)) Destroyed? We don't know if the ship was destroyed, only that the starbase was hit by Klingons. The Saratoga could've departed the base or destroyed, we don't know! Go find the writers on Twitter and ask them about its fate, then come back here with your evidence.--Noash Retrac (talk) 00:19, February 24, 2019 (UTC) : Don't be so naive! Looking for alternate explanations to what should be an obvious answer is not using MA:COMMON sense. The entire takeaway from the article and the purpose of even mentioning the Saratoga is to explain how 1/3 of the fleet was destroyed by the very tactic the Saratoga inadvertantly enabled. It makes no sense, based on the information as it is presented, that a klingon ship would follow the saratoga into the base, then wait for the saratoga to leave (and not be part of the actual statistic being presented) before blowing itself up. That is completely contrary to the klingon's motivation and intent. --Alan (talk) 02:22, February 24, 2019 (UTC) Until dialogue confirms it, we shouldn't speculate. That's like speculating that the Centaur was in Operation Return based on the reference that Sisko says there is a Captain Reynolds being present or that Shelby was captain of the Sutherland during the Dominion War. Or even that all the starships on the Operation Retrieve list were all Constitution-class starships where their registries believes that some were Miranda, Oberth, Excelsior or Constellation-class starships. I want dialogue or confirmation from writers to say the Saratoga was definitely destroyed.--Noash Retrac (talk) 03:29, February 24, 2019 (UTC) : No. MA:COMMON sense (which I am still 101% sure you haven't read) is not speculating, anymore than ignoring my previous comment altogether is helping your argument, nor is arguing apples and oranges, when in this case the intent was quite evident. :PS, since you are obviously new here, try to keep you place in the indent column next time.--Alan (talk) 06:16, February 24, 2019 (UTC) Isn't it common sense to assume the Saratoga survived and is still active? We don't know. It's common sense to get evidence from writers to confirm a theory. Otherwise, I might as well add whatever the hell I want to any page without reference because that's what I believe. I've also attached to Wookieepedia for many years and common sense prevails there. We don't go on theory, we look for fact. I assume that's what we do here.--Noash Retrac (talk) 09:08, February 24, 2019 (UTC) :::I'm completely with Noash Retrac here. Even if it were common sense to assume it was destroyed, which as someone who is familiar with the policy I'm not convinced, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head demanding that the scenario be gamed out. It's fine to just present the facts as they were described, and leave further conclusions to the reader. (also @ Noash, how we indent here, since you still don't have it 100% right) -- Capricorn (talk) 10:59, February 24, 2019 (UTC) : This is insane. : If someone reads something, then immediately starts asking "what ifs", then who is really the one making speculations here? :If someone states, : "Stardate 4851.5: A cloaked raider tails the USS Saratoga into spacedock at Starbase 22, then ignites its antimatter supply in a suicide mission. Days later, similar assaults are carried out on bases 19 and 12, resulting in the loss of one-third of our fleet." : ...which they did, it doesn't require ANY leap of faith to read that particular statement and not understand that this is a simple case of a cause and effect. To think otherwise, especially in a case of debriefing the atrocities of the past nine months, is a fools errand. :For a ship to simply be mentioned in those series of unfortunate circumstance, despite itself be literally being the very reason that roughly 1/3rd of 1/3rd of the fleet was lost in this, yet somehow itself survived is a total pipe dream. --Alan (talk) 11:31, February 24, 2019 (UTC) :::I'm not so much challenging those facts, but rather the idea that the infobox needs to be filled in as complete as possible at any cost. Yes, the Saratoga was in all likelihood destroyed, but if it was not explicitly stated on screen then there is no added value to us taking that extra step, no matter how small a leap it might be. Just because from the dialog it seems 99% sure the ship is a goner, does not make it our solemn duty to round that up to a 100%. Just writing what was stated is the best way to reflect the facts to the extent we understand them. -- Capricorn (talk) 12:59, February 24, 2019 (UTC) ::::Given that the ship's fate is uncertain, would there be a problem with putting something like "Unknown" or "Either destroyed or active" in the infobox? Similar solutions have been used on the Cochrane II and articles, where the ship's exact fate is unknown. (JMC Red Dwarf (talk) 20:36, February 24, 2019 (UTC))